I think I would have to sum up the reaction to this episode as..."Huh?" I think we were all over the place looking for answers, trying to find a thread...sorry, Faux Mom.
We started out wondering about the aging of the bodies "Adam and Eve": Jack had guessed they were about 40 years old or so when he found them, but from the episode we are guessing they were killed a lot further back than that... (mostly from Claudia speaking Latin...a language that "died" over a long period of time but say for discussion's sake starting around the 7th century AD) so.... why the huge discrepency? My best guess.... because the Island moves through time and place... usual factors don't apply.
General agreement that MIB was more likeable in this episode...got to see the influences that made him...another Crazy Mom - The Original Crazy Mom, I guess! Felt that he wasn't evil until AFTER being shoved into the Golden Cave and coming out Smoke Monster. (or did he... his body was somewhere else.... another question!) Also agreed that the show is great at casting kids who really do look like their adult selves or parents.
Why can Jacob leave the Island while MIB could not? Some felt that he was able to make up his own rules once he was the Protector. There was speculation that drinking the wine gives one wisdom of the Island...FM told Jacob after he drank "Now you and I are the same." is the reason that Jacob still had his own body and soul and Smocke didn't? No idea... But this seems to be a big hole...
Back to MIB...speculation that Smockey just takes the form of a body...but still, what keeps him on the Island, why did he have to wait for Locke's body, as there surely were lots of others to pick from over the centuries.
Carol felt in general that the episode went a little to far to Sci Fi.
Who was Claudia? Where did she come from? Rome or one of its kingdoms? During this time Phyllis said the word "Atlantis" and I was glad I wasn't the only one who thought of that... though I wonder if the Island itself is Atlantis...it didn't sink... it just moved. Carol did confirm for me that Claudia tells BIB (that's Boy in Black) that the other people on the island were her people - from her ship. I had missed that. He is also the one who countered FM with "but we're people" when she went on her first "people are awful" rant.
Wondered, if FM destroyed MIB's well, where he was working on the Donkey Wheel, she must have some super strength...does she have a bit of Smoke Monster in her, too?
Of course we got into the whole Mothers/Children "raised by another" curse on the Island. Phyllis referred to Doc Jensen's (who seems to be returning to sanity as the season draws to a close) discussion of the Loom of Destiny . I do think that Loom is more than just the Island's fashion center. I think FM, and later Jacob, use it to pull people to the Island. As I recall in one of the first scenes where we see adult Jacob he's asking FM how he's doing on the Loom... and we see him at it in later episodes... it's cloth is important to those who come after his death...so I guess I disagree with Doc's rejection of his own theory... who knows.
Back to FM...wondered if her death created the Mother/child curse on the Island. That's it...no answer, just the question.
It was here that a comment in one of the recappers was explained. I can't remember where, but someone called FM "Not the Momma" - apparently from the old show Dinosaurs, where the baby called his mother Mama and his father "Not the Momma".
Noted that the boys aged from birth to about their mid 40's...but not any more. MIB, well, he was turned into Smokey, or his soul was...his body went downstream and eventually into the cave with FM. As for Jacob, he drank the wine, and like Richard Alpert so many centuries later... aging stopped.
Melissa expressed her longing for a scene that had the conversation "This is wine of ______, here are your responsibilites, here is how this all works, your rules, your powers..." Yes, an explanation! But we never got that. Perhaps our anger is that of MIB in the episode when FM cautions him about looking for the Golden Light: "You have no idea" she starts to say... "I have no idea because you wouldn't tell me!" he throws back at her, and a minute later she kills him...or beats the crap out of him. I wondered, did she know she couldn't kill him? Was she just trying to get him out of the way so she could destroy his work and the people who were helping him? Was she under the same rule regarding the boys as the boys were with each other - they couldn't hurt each other? But she could beat up MIB as Jacob did a little while later... so, you can beat up but not outright kill? Questions, Questions, Questions....
Melisssa reported an idea of a friend of hers: That the Island is The Garden of Eden, the Golden Light is the Tree of Life.
Carol wondered if Jacob let Smokey out when he sent in MIB's body...that, like Pandora and her infamous Box, Jacob freed the evil Smokey by going where he wasn't supposed to go...where he had been warned to avoid.
ALL the characters on the show are combinations of Good and Bad...we like that.
Melissa felt that it was the Producers speaking to the audience when FM told Claudia "Every question I answer will simply lead to more questions"... oh, yes, message received loud and clear...not that we like it.
Also seems that we fans assumed the rules of the Island were fixed (they made us think that!) but now it seems they are telling us the Rules are what the Protector makes up, OK, decides on. We had a spirited discussion on the difference between unchanging rules of the Universe, ie, gravity, and rules that a group (or ruler) comes up with that can be changed, like the legal drinking age or what side of the road you drive on. I think we were all a bit disappointed that the Island's Rules not the former.
I asked if anyone thought that BIB's ability to see his real dead mom, Claudia, was in any way related to Hurely's ability to see dead people. He could do this away from the Island as well as on it. I was roundly told NO...but I can't shake a feeling...
Carol reported on a TVGuide.com poll asking fans what they hoped would be the ending of the show. Carol felt the best idea (and we agreed): Bob Newhart waking up in bed next to wife played by Susanne Pleshette and exclaiming "boy if you thought that dream about an Inn in Vermont was something..." That harkens back to the ending from the show Newhart, 1982 - 1990, maybe the greatest ending to a TV show ever. But, it was a sitcom...
What we fear is that there will be another "incident", a fade to black...and then, a close-up on an eye opening.... and that's it! I will just plotz!
Namaste, Yinz
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